Nota: Como las preguntas y respuestas son largas, he procurado introducir algunas llamadas a diversos asuntos tratados por Joffe y Kurylenko en sucesivas partes de esta conferencia de prensa. Y también algunas imágenes, tomadas del sitio de la película. JJG Noblejas [Actualización, Marzo 2011: ver Opiniones antes del estreno de "Encontrarás dragones" ("There Be Dragons")]
Press Conference Transcript
-- This is a live Press Conference on “There Be Dragons,” a new film being directed by Roland Joffe
-- Joffe: Well, in a way, the project came to me
-- Joffe: saintliness could be performed by ordinary people in their ordinary everyday lives
-- Joffe: Civil wars are horrendous. But that civil war was particularly important too
-- Joffe: Characters - Ildiko, Oriol, Manolo, Josemaría
-- Kurylenko: Ildiko - she's not a professional fighter. And she's just a simple girl. She doesn't want to live her life in vain
-- Joffe: Redemption, forgiveness, love: Christianity
-- Joffe: Josemaría - he would have been absolutely shocked to think that he would be a saint
-- Kurylenko: Ildiko - she's not afraid to look life in the eyes
-- Kurylenko: Ildiko - she gets caught in this triangle; she's attracted to the light; she's not attracted to the cowardice
-- Joffe: Manolo - in many respects, he's a kind of Judas figure
-- Joffe: we're all potential saints. There's no saint who was a saint without struggle. There are many forms of love.
-- Joffe: I think very few movies dare address the question of the divine
-- Kurylenko: this is a movie about forgiving people and loving them in spite of all the cruelty and all the, you know, not perfection that we are all about
-- Joffe: the son-father relationship is extremely important
-- Roland, are you a puppet in the hands of other forces? - Joffe: Am I a robot manipulated by all those occult behaviorists in Opus Dei who can produce anything that they want?
-- Joffe: autonomy - this film has been independently financed
-- What are those core principles that Josemaria introduced that were so new for the Church?
-- Kurylenko: Why I think this movie is important for everyone? Because it just treats the most crucial questions, and this movie speaks about love
-- Joffe: the Civil War is only half the story. I would be the proudest man in the world if only ten percent of the cinema came out in Spain and thought, “Yeah, reconciliation matters.”
-- outside of Spain, how does this film, which is set in a time period a long time ago, relate to today and to things we're facing today?
This is a live Press Conference on “There Be Dragons,” a new film being directed by Roland Joffe
Paul Lauer: Hello, everybody, it's Paul Lauer from Motive Entertainment. We are speaking with you from Spain. This is a live Press Conference on “There Be Dragons,” an incredible new film being directed by Roland Joffe. And Olga Kurylenko has just joined us… Olga Kurylenko: Hello. Lauer: …and Roland is not far behind. Again, a couple of quick house-keeping details. Our new website: you can look at www.therebedragonsfilm.com. That's just been launched today, and we'll have a lot more content going up in the next couple of days, including all the materials that you Press will need. On the invitation that you would have received for this call, there's also a contact there for Leslie who is handling the publicity for the project. And if you'd like to ask questions during this conference, please e-mail [email protected]. Joffe: Well, in a way, the project came to me. It came to me, in the early days, in a form I didn't actually like, so I sort of said “no.” And then, after some time and lots of discussion, one of the producers brought me a DVD of Josemaria's talks. I’d really decided I didn't think I wanted to do the project, but I put the DVD into a player and, while I was writing my letter of “Thank you, but no,” I watched a bit of Josemaria speaking, and there was a moment that I thought was extraordinarily impressive where he's addressing a very large crowd, maybe three thousand people, in Chile or Argentina, I'm not really sure where. And a girl, a rather beautiful girl, puts her hand up at the back and has a question. And he asks what the question is, and she says that she'd like to convert. And Josemaria, with a sort of rather gentle smile says, “Of course,” you know… “What's the problem?” And, she says, “Well, there is a problem, because my parents are Jewish.” And without batting an eyelid, Josemaria just said, “Oh, my dear, oh, no. Loving your parents, honoring your parents is absolutely close to God, and if this causes your parents any worries, it's not God's intention at all. If God's in your heart, that's absolutely sufficient, but no no no, don't do anything that's going to upset your parents.” And this was such a human warm reply that I actually changed the letter I was writing into a piece of screenplay, and I wrote a scene where something similar happens and, of course, by the time I'd done that, I was hooked. And then I wrote to the producer and said, “Look, I was to writing to you to leave me alone, and… if you'll trust me, I'll do my utmost to write something interesting. Because I think there's something very special going on here, and I'd like to have a go at it.” Joffe: saintliness could be performed by ordinary people in their ordinary everyday lives Lauer: So… many people on the phone are probably wondering what the project is about, other than what they've read on the invitation. This is, in some sense, a film about Josemaria, who has been declared a saint, who was the founder of Opus Dei. But it's a lot more than that. And it's about, perhaps, more about the impact of Josemaria on other people's lives. Talk about that a little bit. Joffe: Well, I think, one of the things that impressed me a lot about Josemaria was the fact that he saw that saintliness didn't require that you withdraw into a religious order; it didn't require that you become a priest. But, actually, saintliness, the act - … saintly acts, could be performed by ordinary people in their ordinary everyday lives. Which, at the time, was a very radical idea. Particularly when the Church was feeling somewhat under threat, anyway, and… There's something very very perfect and rather beautiful about this idea, I think, because it's open to so many people to achieve the best for themselves in life. So I think that it's a wonderful idea to say, look, if you want to have a spiritual relationship with God, do it through your everyday life; do it through very very simple things, do it when you're cooking a meal, do it with your family, do it when your having a row even, but after the row maybe there's going to be a consequence, that, actually, you can step outside yourself and say, “Wait a minute. I'm a human being, but I'm also more.” And I think there's something extremely creative and human about that. And that's really what the movie's about. But it also gave me the way into the movie, because… how do you really make a movie about a saint? I mean, how do you dramatize a saint? By virtue of their saintliness, saints are rarely doing things that are of interest to the general public. But this one idea that you would find saintliness inside everyday human acts became extremely exciting, because it meant I could write about ordinary human beings. And this is a movie, in a way, about what Josemaria thinks, but it's also a movie about war, the Spanish Civil War, a terrifying war; it's about people who are trapped in that war. It's a bit about people who are really living everday life in a somewhat shocking and, I think, extraordinarily exciting and touching way. And that illustrates what it is to be a saint: that you would influence people living their everyday lives. And that's what the movie became about. Joffe: Civil wars are horrendous. But that civil war was particularly important too Lauer: Let's talk about some of the characters in the movie. We know the movie has Josemaria Escrivá, the founder of Opus Dei, a very controversial organization - we'll talk about that in a minute - popularized by the “Da Vinci Code” movies and book, which may or may not have been an accurate presentation of what Opus Dei really is. But let's talk about some of the other characters, including Ildiko, whom Olga plays. Who are these characters? What is the plot? Joffe: Well, the Civil War was a very extraordinary time; the Spanish Civil War was a very extraordinary time. Civil wars are very extraordinary. Those of you - if you’re listening to this in America - will know that your own civil war, which happened, you know, a century plus ago, still has left its mark on the country. Everybody has images in their heads of the Civil War. So, exactly the same thing happened in Spain. Civil wars are horrendous. But that civil war was particularly important too, because it was the beginning of a change in the century. Historically, there were enormous social changes going on; philosophical and political changes. And those come at a price. Usually a destructive price. When human beings change their points of view, it rarely happens peacefully, unfortunately. Joffe: Characters - Ildiko, Oriol, Manolo, Josemaría But many people were attracted to Spain, through idealism--on both sides, I have to say. Some idealism is more popular than others. And someone like Ildiko is a wonderful character who came from Hungary. Hungary was going through its own experiences with Fascism, and Ildiko's sense was that in Spain a new world could be forged. I think people were tired of the old world; people wanted to create something extraordinary; they wanted their lives to have meaning; they wanted life to achieve an ideal state. And so very many people came and actually offered their lives up. I mean, they fought; they struggled; they suffered. And Ildiko comes. She's nineteen. She comes with an extraordinary intense idealism and a great propensity to love. And she loves not only the Spaniards that she fights with, but she falls in love, in particular, with a man called Oriol, who's an anarchist leader and a wonderful charismatic figure, played by Rodrigo Santoro. But that love leads to an extraordinary tragedy, which I won't go into now because I won't spoil the movie, but a triangle gets set up with one of the other principle characters in the movie, a man called Manolo. Manolo, if you like, is the antithesis of Josemaria. But he's also, in some senses, I suppose, a part of Josemaria. Because you can't have good without less good. Or you can't have good without evil, maybe. So Manolo does something rather horrible that results in the death of many people. And the movie is about how he has to come to terms with that. Lauer: Olga's stopping him from giving the movie away! She wants to do it! (Laugh) Kurylenko: Stop! (Laugh) Lauer: Well, with that, let's introduce Olga and talk a little bit more from your prospective about Ildiko. We know you as, perhaps, the first James Bond girl who kicked butt. No pun intended. You weren't the James Bond girl who was just there after James did the work and he wanted to come home to, you know, somebody to... Joffe: Cuddle. Lauer: Cuddle. (Laugh) Kurylenko: (Laugh) No, I didn't cuddle. Lauer: You were part of the action, very much part of the action. You know, dirty and roughed up. And here you are playing this gal from Hungary who comes to Spain to fight. I mean, we see you with a rifle. Kurylenko: Yes, and who also gets dirty and roughed up. (Laugh) But she's a different character and a different personality. And she's… I mean, to the contrary of Camille in “Bond,” she's not a professional fighter. And she's just a simple girl. Like it was the case in the Spanish Civil War, that civilian people were just taking whatever they had in their hands and just were fighting. And she just comes, and she learns everything right there. You can see in the first shots how she behaves. When she first hears the bullets whistling, passing by her ears, above her head, when she sees the explosions in her face and she's actually--she goes to this war, and she says “I'm going to fight” and she has no idea until she actually steps on a battle field. And I think it's a big shock, and it really hits her in the face that she realizes what she's actually about to do. Because, I think, until you're actually in the battle, you don't--until you're at war - you don't really have an idea about what it is. Lauer: What is it that's driven her there? Kurylenko: It is, as Roland said, her idealism. Her search for the meaning of life. She is the person who, I think, grows up as a child believing in a better world. And she feels that she is, she's capable of bringing a part, you know, playing a part in this change. And she wants to… - she doesn't want to live her life in vain. She wants to leave something after. She wants to have a sense to it. She wants to do something. And I think that when, in Spain, she hears about the Iron Brigades and them gathering the people, she decides to go for it, because she sees that she will be… she is needed, and she will be useful, and she can bring the changes. And it's the search for the meaning. She really does want to; she's looking for the meaning. Joffe: Redemption, forgiveness, love: Christianity Lauer: Yeah. One of the questions that's come in already is precisely to that point of meaning and redemption, and these are all very deep characters. I don't know that Roland knows how to make a film any other way... Joffe: Thank you. Lauer: …than with deep characters. And this question is from a more faith-based perspective. Specifically, in reaching out to leaders who are pastors, people who are the captains of people's souls, and who are trying to teach meaning and values and faith and so forth… and some use movies as a way to give examples that people can relate to. This is a movie about a saint, but it's also a movie about real life. What can those leaders, people like that, hope to find in this film that they'll be able to share with their congregations or those who listen to them? Joffe: Well, I think many things actually. But I think that, probably, what's worth concentrating on is certainly the idea of redemption. I think the great strength in Christianity is essentially because it's a religion based on the idea of love, and the idea of a religion based on loving God. It's also a religion based on the idea of forgiveness. And I think that's quintessentially its message; and quintessentially important. And the redemption can't come without love. The extraordinary thing about Christianity is that, in actual fact, it's not a judgmental religion. It's a religion that says, you are frail because you are human, but you are a human created by the divine. Therefore your frailty is part of your journey. And I think that, one of the things that I would be fascinated to discuss in the movie is the whole question of judging others. How do you judge another human being? Can you judge another human being? What's the point of judging another human being? The question is, what life journey is each human being on? And what life journey are we on when we find forgiveness for the way human beings behave? And I think that, for any community, that's an extremely important thing to discuss. Because what binds community together is the way in which a community understands that nobody is perfect and that imperfection is part of what we've been given as human beings. And our striving for perfection can be a beautiful thing, but it has to be done in a very humane and loving way. And one should never abandon love and, I think, that idea of discussing with your community their idea of judgment and love and what they actually mean. And think about that in family terms. Think about that in terms of your children; think of that in terms of your spouse. Thinking of that in terms of your community is extraordinarily important. Combined with the idea that nobody in Christianity is outside. You are not excluded in Christianity. You are constantly offered the chance to arrive at the point in which you understand and accept redemption. And that's extremely important. So I think that you would discuss with your community the idea that there is no end to this journey. It's a continuing journey; it's a journey in which each person is finding their own route. But it is a journey in which even your failures are part of the journey, and if they can be seen in that way, they're constructive and creative. I think that's extraordinarily interesting. And I think very very healing for a community to discuss. Joffe: Josemaría - he would have been absolutely shocked to think that he would be a saint Lauer: What is it about your portrayal of Josemaria, the saint Josemaria, that makes him human, that makes him relate-able to us mere mortals that, perhaps, aren't quite saints yet? Joffe: Well, I think that that's a fascinating question. Actually, I think it's his humility. I think, in a sense, he would have been absolutely shocked to think that he would be a saint. I think he would have said “I am a sinner.” And he would be listening to this discussion kind of with his head in his hands saying, “Oh my God.” You know. “I'm not a saint, please!” But that's extraordinarily important, because none of us are saints. It's not given to a human being to be a saint. It is given to human beings to offer saintliness to others as a mark of intense respect and beauty. And let's face it, a “saint” simply means a hero of the Church. In what way was he a hero? I think it was in this way. That very early on, he decided that loving God was a key to living a rich and full life. Very early on, he discovered, he felt, that that was something that needed to be shared. But it needed to be shared with humor, and it needed to be shared with something that's extremely important to him, which was the idea that it needs to be shared in freedom. See, Josemaria's feeling was never that you set up an organization and everybody has to think the same. His idea was that you set up a relationship between human beings which is based on the love of God, but that you say to each person, “God himself gave you something which is extraordinarily important which is the idea of choice. So constantly in your life you'll be faced by choices. There is no life that can exist without choices. And the choices you make are going to be complicated and may not be… - they may not be exactly what you'd expect. But you have to go through those choices with your own acts of conscience.” So Josemaria would never say, “You must do this.” He would say, “How does it fit in with your spiritual development? This is what I'm here to discuss with you. This is what we're here to discuss with you. But what you actually do is how you come to terms with your own conscience and your own sense of who you are.” And in that sense, I think, what he was saying to everybody was, “Look, we're all in the same boat. We are all offered choices.” Every minute of the day, we're offered a choice. Should I do A, or B, or C, or D? Some choices bigger than others. Some choices more shocking than others. Some choices are shattering in their potential power. But, each one a choice. And each one teaching us something about ourselves and, most importantly, about other human beings. Kurylenko: Ildiko - she's not afraid to look life in the eyes Lauer: Hum (thoughtful pause). Josemaria lived at a time, a very tumultuous time, the Spanish Civil War and so forth. And he's surrounded by division and conflict, not only in the national sense of the war that's going on, the Civil War, but in these other characters. Let's talk a little bit about your conflict, Olga. What's going on with your character? And, ultimately, as you approached this character, what were you hoping the average person, like me, would get out of what you were giving us in your portrayal? Kurylenko: Well, I think that Ildiko is the person who is very brave, I think. Because she is very open to life, and she is very curious. And, as Roland said, we all have choices, and I think she has an understanding that certain things might be difficult. She still choses what she thinks is right for the time, for the conflict she is in. She makes choices. Lauer: For the cause. Kurylenko: Yes, the cause. And that's very brave. And she has… - I think she has very certain principles, and she would not go, you know, behind them. And she followed them. And she's quite… - she's not afraid to look life in the eyes, I think. And that's very important because I think that a lot of people are. A lot of people are afraid. Lauer: Yeah, she's definitely not afraid. I mean... Kurylenko: And even though she gets to the war, and of course it does scare her, but it's about going against the fear. And that's what bravery is. Because there's no person who has no fears. Everybody fears, but some people follow those fears and hide, and some people fight those fears and go against them. And that's what bravery is. And she is… - and she's this young fragile woman. She's not at all some kind of a, you know, (laugh) big fighter or, you know. But she still goes for it. And I think that she has guts. Lauer: You know, there's two men that come into her life... Kurylenko: Also, yeah. Lauer: Into this battle, and they represent to very different things. Kurylenko: Yeah, she gets caught in this triangle. And yes, they do represent two very different things. Lauer: She's attracted to one and not the other. What is she attracted to? And not attracted to? Kurylenko: Well, she's attracted to the light. She's attracted to the person who she sees represents her views in this world. Her political ideas. And she also gets attracted to the same idealist as her. And someone who is brave and who will—well, let's say, give his life to the cause. And she's this kind of person. And she's not attracted to the cowardice, and that's what she sees in the other... with many other things. And I think that cowardice is something that she despises. Joffe: Manolo - in many respects, he's a kind of Judas figure Lauer: Manolo, Roland, is perhaps that character that displays that cowardice more than any other. Let's talk about Manolo a little bit. You mentioned earlier that he might be almost the counterpart to Josemaria. Who is Manolo? What is his character? Joffe: Well, I think a way to approach this maybe is to think of wholeness, you know, to think what is a whole character? And what is a divided character? And if one's thinking in community terms, and I'm sure that there are people in your community who you think of as whole people, and there are ones that you can see that they're divided; their characters are kind of split into different parts. And unifying your character is a kind of lifelong journey, which I think Josemaria managed early, and not without some struggle. I think, for Manolo, he's just not a unified character; he's pulled in very different ways, and that makes him weak, in a sense, because different motivations will pull him in opposing directions, and, in a sense, he becomes a traitor. In many respects, he's a kind of Judas figure. You'll remember that Judas was loved by Jesus, and in a sense the beauty and tragic divinity of Jesus wouldn't have happened without Judas. There's something wonderfully contained and important in that metaphor, as I think there is in the whole story of Manolo. You could argue - and I don't want to give the movie away - that the final act of the drama between Ildiko and Manolo is a saintly act. Now that will shock people for five or ten minutes while they think about it - of what that act might have meant - but when you really think about it, you begin to realize something quite extraordinary has happened, and I can't wait for people to see this movie… and see what they… and how they respond, and how they feel about this extraordinary sense about what saintliness might be. Lauer: That's great. I want to remind everybody, for those of you who joined us a little late, if you'd like to e-mail questions for Roland or Olga you can e-mail them to ([email protected]). And we're also going to have a complete recorded transcript of the interview today, again if you came in late, you'll be able to get all the other content that we've covered. And the website, that has just gone live today, therebedragonsfilm.com, and, I believe, therebedragonsmovie.com will also get you there, and there's quite a few materials that you'll find there, including stills for publication. Saints and sinners. Will they both get something out of this film? What will the saint get out of watching this film, the handful of saints (laugh) out there... Kurylenko: (Joking) We already established that there are no saints... Lauer: (Joking) There are no saints. The more saintly of us, the better of the people out there, what do they get out of a story like this? Joffe: Well, we're all potential saints. Oh, I think they'll get out of it the struggles that they have. There's no saint who was a saint without struggle, and I think they'll get out of it the sense that life is the most extraordinary experience. I think they will get too an almost sort of geographical view of different forms of love. Because we talk about “love,” but love is not the same. There are many forms of love. And we do this a lot. We kinda of just get a full-mantled word and think we know what we mean. But we don't, really. Ildiko's love for Oriol is a particular kind of love; her love for making a better world is a particular kind of love. Manolo's love, which he does have, for Ildiko is a particular kind of love. The love that Manolo eventually discovers is a very particular kind of love. There are loves between fathers and sons, between husbands and wives, between lovers, and I think that what we begin to see is the way in which these things all come together. It's as though love is like a spider's web. Of threads. And each thread, in a sense, is quite different when you pursue it. But you're right, it's all sort of attached to the same thing. It will always lead you to the same point. A spider's web leads you to the same center. And all these different strands of love that look so different will in the end come together and back to one fundamental question which I think is, “Do I love this more than myself?” And that's a wonderful question. But loving something more than yourself - if that's not attached to some divine other - it may raise its own set of problems. And it's not for me to say what those problems are. But the movie, in some sense, is also asking that as a question, and it leaves it very much to the viewer to figure out what answer they think they will find. And I think it's very very important in this movie, and for me. This movie doesn't lecture, it doesn't hector, it doesn't tell people what to think. It simply says, “If you are a human being watching this movie, with other human beings, this is a movie about you.” Because it's a movie about human beings trying to live their lives. And just as your friends give you examples and things to think about, good and bad, the movie will do the same thing. But you'll be left to make your own mind up about what you feel about it all. Joffe: I think very few movies dare address the question of the divine Lauer: How do you consider this movie different from many other projects you've done and many other projects that are being done out there? What's different about this movie? Joffe: Well I think what I just described, in a way. I think very few movies dare address the question of the divine. In fact, people think I'm mad, and there's certainly one English newspaper that's said “Joffe's gone mad,” thinking he's going to do a movie about God. And I think that's highly amusing. Why we would be considered mad because we think that there's a God, but sane if we think there isn't, I can't understand. They're both mad, and they're both sane. The fact is, we have no idea, until we really think about it. But if you think about it… it seems to me that there's a beauty in the idea that there's a Creator and the idea of God that's lacking in the idea of… - the kind of existential idea of the world which suggests that there's nothing but us human beings. So it seems to me, if one can take the choice, why not take the choice that offers the most beauty and the most richness in human experience; which religion in many ways has shown us that it can do. But, of course, religion is mitigated through human beings. It's not always going to be right. And all human beings are capable of severe wrong. But you know what? When you judge the whole of human experience, that's what it has in common. But religion offers something else still. I mean, particular religion. It offers us the idea that there is something other than us, and we are not only the measure of ourselves. And that that measure of us is more glorious and more extraordinary than we can imagine. I think that's not a bad illusion, if it is an illusion to have. And if it's the truth, that's pretty wonderful. Lauer: Olga. Outside of your own character what else do you relate to in the movie? Maybe just think about some of the other characters, or even Josemaria the main character. What is it about his character that you connect with? Kurylenko: Well, actually, it's interesting. I think, as Roland just said, this is a movie about love, and it's about forgiveness; about forgiving people and loving them in spite of all the cruelty and all the, you know, not perfection that we are all about. And this is something I constantly think about, and I actually try to follow. I really, I really… I basically really try to live my life in search. I try to find a meaning for my life. I try to be honest with myself. Which is why Ildiko was kind of close to me. And I do go for discovery. I do throw myself into situations just trying to see what's going to come out of it. This is something that she has also. Lauer: When you were given the script, when you first heard about the project, I assume that you heard that it was about the life of a saint and so forth; were you surprised at what you read? Kurylenko: You mean the script? Lauer: Yeah, in the whole story. Were you expecting something very different? Kurylenko: Yes, actually, I did. Yeah. And then I read the story, and I thought it was wonderful. Seriously, I read it during my vacation at the end of last year, and I had about ten scripts that arrived and this was, I think, the only one that I liked out of ten. And there were other offers for main parts. In this film, I don't play the leading part. And this was the most beautiful character I'd come close to – at that time - within the past few months. And I was very surprised. I thought, well of course I would like to be Ildiko. I would like to do this. This is that character that I've been looking for… for a long time. And this is the kind of character that I want to (play), this type, not only this, of course; the substance that this character has, itself, is the character that I want to play. And there was so much to tell about her. It's so… - to think that she's only that big in the film, and there could be a much bigger story about her and Oriol and their whole story. Lauer: You related a circumstance where Roland called you before you had the part, and he kind of talked to you about what it was all about... Kurylenko: Well, we met on the phone, and it was very strange. We just spoke, and he asked me if I'd like the part. And I said, “Of course.” And, you know, “I love Ildiko; I love the part. And I would love to do it.” And he said, “Well, I think I'd like you to do it too.” And then he briefly described this scene for me, on the phone, and my reaction was very strange, because within a few minutes I was in tears. And I thought - and that's when I thought – OK, I can only imagine what this director's going to do to me on set. And the way he spoke to me, I had the whole movie - well not the whole movie, this scene - in front of my eyes. I just saw it. I felt like I was a spectator. I saw it with all the colors. With all the sounds. I almost had the music in my head. Everything was there, and he did it with only a few words. And it's true that on the set that this was multiplied by a hundred. I've never had an experience working with a director like that, because he provided everything for the actors to be in a situation, to believe in a situation. We even had music playing on the set, which I’ve never experienced before, which directors don't normally do, because it takes time, preparation; it maybe bothers people; maybe it costs more, I don't know… for different reasons. This didn't push him away. The most important thing was that we were there and were into the scene, and it was extraordinary. There are many other things, but this would be a long conversation. Many other things he did which I've never experienced before. Joffe: the son-father relationship is extremely important Lauer: And hopefully we'll see all of that on film, all of that richness. We have a question about the father-son relationship, which is certainly a very critical part of the whole plot of Manolo and Robert. Talk a little bit about what somebody who comes from a troubled family situation - and there's many different forms that that takes - might get out of two hours of watching this film. Joffe: Well, I think - and many people come out of a troubled family situation, probably more than come out of not-troubled family situations-- it's a difficult thing being a parent. You know I think parent-child relationships are crucially important. Mother-daughter, father-daughter, mother-son. The son-father relationship is extremely important. The way to think of it is this way. The relationship of a father to a child is formative. It is absolutely formative. We are born only knowing certain things, but with needs. And if those needs aren't met very early, the whole relationship can start distorting. Because if the needs aren't met properly, and the parent can't meet the needs, that means that the child is going to grow up in an environment that is automatically distorted. I think that it's a relationship too, between father and son, that needs to be worked through. I'm amazed at how many men go through their lives hating their fathers. And they're never able to reconcile. And I think that this is a terrifying thing, because they get passed on. Hatreds that are locked inside of human beings don't stay there. They can't. They eat their way through the fabric of almost anything, and they'll eat their way through the fabric of the child's relationship with what will become his wife and with what will become his children. Those things that aren't expressed I think are absolutely horrifying. I think, though, that what's required to heal that has to be worked from both sides. I think the father and the son have to come to a point where they realize that the mutualness of their relationship is extraordinarily important. And that the single act of forgiveness, the actual loving act of forgiveness, is probably the single most important thing that the father can offer to his son and equally that a son can offer a parent. It's not easy being a parent, because every parent was a child. And sometimes it's very difficult for us to remember that life, in a way, didn't start with us. Every child was born on page fifty of his parent's book, if you like. So I think that watching this movie, where there is an extraordinary kind of reconciliation, I hope it will move people who are in that similar kind of situation to pick up the phone or to go see their dad or their son and say, “You know what, what's passed between us is unspeakable and unbearable, but let's let it go. Let's just let it go together.” Because that single act of letting it go together is so releasing and so beautiful and so creative. And, in a sense, it has a very extraordinary model, which I think Christianity models, when it's talking about the relationship of the Son to the Father and Jesus to God--but also God is our Father. But what is he? He's a loving Father. He's not a strict or authoritarian Father, so I think there's something very important in that metaphor. And love is not easy to give if it can't be received, and it's not easy to give if the ground hasn't been prepared for it to grow. But, like I said, we're all frail, and love can be found in very extraordinary places, so any sons who see this movie who can't speak with their fathers, I hope they go and pick up the phone and talk to them. And I think there are fathers who long to talk to their sons but don't know how to do it. I think they'll pick up the phone and say “Come over here, I want to hug you!” Lauer: Let's talk for a moment about this mysterious organization Opus Dei. You're the director, the writer, but are you really? Is this your film, Roland, or are you a puppet in the hands of other forces? Joffe: Am I a robot manipulated by all those occult behaviorists in Opus Dei who can produce anything that they want? Actually, it's an extremely good question, and I suppose you'll have to divide it into two parts. The first part one would say is: “Why are people so worried about Opus Dei?” Can't fully explain that. I’d have to say they're worried about almost everything. Two hundred years ago, it was the Jesuits. One hundred years ago, it was the protocols of Zion, and it was the Jews. For some people, it will be groups of Muslims. Look, it is part of human nature to decide that all the ills of the world are somehow the responsibility of some group. Actually, what I think that is… - it's our way of dealing with our own malevolence. In other words, actually, we all know that we have good and bad sides of us, but we don't really like to admit our bad sides. At least, I certainly don't. So I think it's awfully easy to somehow suggest that our bad side is really some group that's got together that's doing something horrible, and that's really what's making the world so horrible. It's rather primitive, but that's the way it works. So, Opus Dei isn't that at all. I think Opus Dei hasn't helped itself in terms of publicity because it's a rather low-key organization. And Josemaria didn't want people going around saying “We're members of Opus Dei.” Not because he thought it should be kept secret, but because he felt this isn't an organization that should be “holier than thou”; this is a rather open organization in its own way. When you understand the structure of Opus Dei and you understand Josemaria, you understand, A) there is no political side to Opus Dei. Opus Dei is not political. It has no political organization. There is no Opus Dei view of anything, because each Opus Dei member is considered to be an individual in their own right. And individuality was incredibly important for Josemaria, who believed that each individual took his own spiritual path to God, and sometimes Josemaria might say and, indeed wrote this, I sometimes see people making catastrophic decisions, but it's not for me to tell them that those decisions are catastrophic. They have to learn what those decisions might be in their own relationship with God. Obviously, an organization like that is hardly going to be an organization that's somehow manipulating the world. Sometimes people think that Opus Dei is very wealthy. Well, I suppose in some senses it's got some wealth, but you can compare it to other Catholic or Christian organizations, and it's not particularly wealthy at all. Some people see it as influential. Well, how could it be influential? I suppose it could be influential in the Church, but then… I thought maybe it was, so I went and I checked out how many cardinals were in Opus Dei, and I think there may be one. Maybe there might be none, by now. How many bishops out of the three hundred or so bishops that there are? I think two or three. There's no way in which Opus Dei could be said to be influential in the Church beyond any other organization, although all organizations obviously vie for some degree of power in the Church. Of course, that's normal. So, I just think that it's a mistake. I just think it's a mistaken thing that people kind of feel happy about. And certainly insofar as I was concerned, when I wrote it, I said to the producers, one of whom was an Opus Dei member, “Will I be free to write what I want?” And he said “Any reason we're coming to you is to offer you to write what you want.” And I said “Even if it's critical?” And he said “Even if it's critical.” And I said “Even if it has a scene where somebody says that God is bad?” And he said, “Well, if that's a good scene, then you should say what you want.” And, indeed, there is a scene in the movie that asks that question, and nobody suggested that it shouldn't be there. So if I am a robot, they've certainly worked very well. Joffe: autonomy - this film has been independently financed Lauer: But you have autonomy? I mean, clearly, it's not like they're writing the script for you or cutting the film for you. Joffe: No. Actually, I think one could argue that you get less autonomy working for a studio. Lauer: (Laugh) Speaking of which, this film has been independently financed. Joffe: Correct. Lauer: So it's outside the studio system at this point. Do you have any idea who financed the film, or how it was financed? Joffe: Yes, it was financed actually by a lot of individual investors who were approached, really, by Ignacio Gomez Sancha, who's moved from being a banker to being a producer and literally talked to them about what the project was and said “This is the project; this is the intention of the project; this is what it's about. Wouldn't it be wonderful to make a film like this?” And, to my surprise and delight, a hundred or so people said yes. Some invested large sums, some invested small sums. But they wanted this kind of a movie to be made. Lauer: Are they all members of Opus Dei? Joffe: Some of them will be, I'm sure. And some of them aren't. Certainly there's Spanish television money in it, and I doubt that Spanish television is a wing of Opus Dei. And there's some people that might argue it is. Lauer: (Laugh) Joffe: No, I think there's a pretty broad spectrum of people who have invested in the movie. And even if 100% of them were in Opus Dei, none of them would express an opinion because, like I said, there isn't an “Opus Dei opinion” about anything. There are only individuals, who will share many values in common. Not all though. I mean I've had dinner with Opus Dei members who in the middle of dinner have turned to me and said “Well, of course he's rather right wing!” To which the reply was, “Well of course, he's rather left wing!” And, well, you think, well that's just fine. That sounds just like ordinary people, which it is actually what Opus Dei members are. What are those core principles that Josemaria introduced that were so new for the Church? Lauer: Let's talk about that core message of Josemaria which, at the time that his ideas were introduced, there were many in Catholic leadership that considered them to be quite Protestant in their thinking. What are those core principles that Josemaria introduced that were so new for the Church? Joffe: Well, I could imagine the shock. I mean, imagine that you're a bishop sitting in your office and, I mean, quite often young priests will come to you with ideas about what they want to do, and here comes a young man, actually an extremely young man, only just become a priest and with no resources, really, and he says “Look, I want to form an organization and the whole point of this organization really is that ordinary people can achieve saintliness.” Well, for starters, as a bishop, you'd be a little worried by that, because it would ask you the question “Well, what do you think that religion is about?” And if you were a conservative type of bishop, you'd realize that you didn't really think that ordinary people could achieve saintliness unless priests did it for them. So, really, this is a little shocking. But further than that, he says, “Actually, I think the organization ought to be open to men and women.” But by this time, you would certainly be freaking out a bit, because what kind of organization could this be? And then he says, “Well, actually and they all wear civilian clothes and they don't have to be priests, and actually, I think that they'll find sanctity in their ordinary jobs as midwives or coal miners or cooks or whatever it might be.” And then he says to you as a final thing, “And I also think that it should be open to non-Christians, non-Catholics.” I think, by that time, your head would certainly be spinning. Particularly at a time when the Church was a bit under threat anyway, because the world was going through the sort of shift we've discussed. So I think that you'd be panicked. And in some senses, you might be forgiven for thinking there might be something rather Protestant about this. And there is, in a way, because Protestantism as a movement in the Church was extraordinarily important. The Church would be a much worse place if there hadn't been a Protestant movement. I mean this is what religion is about. Religion is about constant ways of discovering how to approach the divine. So there can't possibly be a way, and I can't see any possible God who would ever want this, where you arrive at the be-all-and-end-all. This is a series of open questions and each human being and each group of human beings is going to find different ways of approaching the same point. So I think the exciting part about Josemaria, in this strange way, was that he managed to be ecumenical in his thinking but also perfectly Catholic in his practice. And that's rather cool. Lauer: Olga. All this talk about priests and religions. Is this a film for everyone? Kurylenko: I think so. Well, I'm sure, actually. Because this film really treats the most (Laughing about confusion of translating from Russian to English)… Why I think this movie is important for everyone? Because it just treats the most crucial questions, and this movie speaks about love. And it concerns all of us. It speaks about love. It speaks about searching for the purpose in life. That's what we all look for, I hope. It looks for happiness, which is what we're all looking for in life. It's about making choices, and we're constantly everyday brought to make choices. It's about actually struggling with negative feelings; it's about struggling with hatred and anger. And trying to be a better person. Different characters have it in bigger or smaller amounts. And it's about actually, for some people, coming out of those struggles. For example, I think one of the main characters is an extremely angry and hating person and totally lost. And I think that's something that's extremely present in our world today, and always was. Let's agree that we've been struggling with it for… centuries, but it's something that's still worth talking about, because it's still our problem! And that's what I guess, as Roland said, is sanctity. There's no sanctity without going through struggle and fight and suffering. It's not just a person who sits in his chair and does nothing and just has great ideas. It's actually someone who gets up and goes and does something, and in spite of the hatred that he received in his face, he keeps believing in the better world; he keeps doing good. And it's something easy to say but not very easy to do at all. But there are people like that, and Josemaria, for example, was one of those people. When people were spitting on him and throwing stones at him, he was still turning back with a smile and kept loving those who were doing these things to him. And there are lines like that in the movie, where he says “Well, we still should love them.” And that's something… - it sounds rather good, but it is actually a fight that people should go through, and it's something possible. It's very idealistic, but it is possible, because there are people like that. And I haven't met Josemaria, but I've actually met people like that in the present life, nowadays. There are people like that. And those are the people who chose not the facility but rather the difficulty, and that's what makes life more interesting, rather than for those who choose the easy way, I think. And that's what makes sense and gives sense to life. Lauer: Is this project a new direction for you professionally, in terms of the types of projects that you want to do? Kurylenko: Well, it happened somehow that it looks like it's a new direction, but it's actually the direction that I've always wanted to be in. In France, I started with very different kinds of movies compared to those I've done lately, before “There be Dragons.” And somehow people refer to me or tell me sometimes “You're an action hero,” which I've never ever imagined myself to be. It was never even in my dreams. Actually, the types of movies I like watching and I like to be in are totally different. Movies like this: dramas. I like Bergman, Tarkovsky and these types of films. And somehow, of course, once people see you in this type of movie they think “Oh, she can move. So why don't we get her in another movie because she does well in fights?” And maybe I do do it well, and I do have fun, but it's not anything I every imagined myself doing. So actually this film, if it looks like a new direction, is actually the direction I always had in my mind for myself. Lauer: We have a question about how this project will be received in Spain, in particular. You mentioned earlier, Roland, that the American Civil War was still very fresh in people's memories, even though it was well over a hundred years ago. There's not a person in America who doesn't have an image and a sense of the pain and the struggle of the Civil War, and even the impact of following the Civil War. And that's certainly similar here in Spain. But also in Spain, not only is there that residue of hatred or taking sides that the Spaniards today...everybody I talk to here comes from one side or the other. But there's also this hatred and mistrust for Opus Dei, the founder being Spanish himself. How do you think this culture, in particular, will receive this film? And what do you think will be unexpected to them? Joffe: Well, it's really a very powerful question, and I think, again, one would have to look at it in various ways. I think that, before people go into the cinema, they'll have very distinct views: we don't like Opus Dei, we don't like Josemaria; we do like Josemaria, we don't like Socialism. Spain likes riding ideological horses. And it likes riding ideological horses going one direction. I adore Spaniards, but I find that Spaniards can be very linear and can hug their linearity, which can be a strength in some ways. I think what will happen when they get inside the movie is that, bit by bit, they'll begin to realize that, actually, the Civil War is only half the story; what we know about the Civil War is only half the story. There was a lot more complexity in human relationships going on, much much deeper things going on for people, consciously and unconsciously, than history would let us believe. And that, as they move through that story, they'll realize that what seemed to be enemies were people moved by very many ideological similarities. That's why the differences seemed so terrifying. At the same time, they'll see many acts of betrayal done on many sides. Actually, betrayal, I'm afraid, happened on the Left as much as it did on the Right. As cruelty did. Now you can't say, “OK, everything is the same.” You can't do that. But what you can actually say is that all human beings will experience the same kinds of emotions. All human beings will experience the same kinds of struggle. And bit by bit, I believe, starting quite small and gradually getting bigger, a surge of longing for reconciliation will sweep through the cinema. And I believe that, by the end of the movie, people will come out wanting to forgive and wanting to say we shouldn't forget and we shouldn't deny what our history was, but we cannot go on being partisan about history. And the reason that you cannot go on about being partisan about history is that there is no historical truth that exists to be partisan about. It's too complicated. In other words, the Left's view of history is as wrong as the Right's view of history, and the Right's view of history is as wrong as the Left's view of history; they're only part of it. And what's crucial is the understanding that we have to start fitting those parts together, because when you fit those two parts together, something more complete happens. As in the story, Josemaria, in his goodness, is only part of the story, as Manolo, in his … his inverted-comma's “badness,” is only part of the story. You fit those two together, and something whole happens. And that's what the movie is saying. The movie is saying: take two aspects of your history, Spain, and now, join them together into one experience. And take the hatred away, because the hatred does not help; we're beyond it. The memory, of course, keep - the love and affection for your family, for those that believed and lost. That has to stay. That can't be allowed to ossify into continuing divisions and ideological rigidities that shrink one's vision of human beings. An act of forgiveness - I was saying about fathers and sons - I think is crucial for Spain. Spain is a remarkable, wonderful country with an extraordinary history… quite a violent history. It would be lovely, I think,… I mean, I would be the proudest man in the world if only ten percent of the cinema came out in Spain and thought, “Yeah, reconciliation matters.” Lauer: And how do the rest of us, outside of Spain but nonetheless living at the same time in the world we have today and its many struggles, how do we all relate to that reconciliation, that forgiveness? Or to put it a different way, how does this film, which is set in a time period a long time ago, decades ago, relate to today and to things we're facing today? Joffe: Well, I think it relates in a couple of ways. Of course, one of the stories plays out in 1980, and that will be relatively close to us, in a way. So there's all kinds of generations involved in the story. I think one of the ways to look at it is to say that one of the powerful things about civil war is that civil war is a metaphor for a family; most families are involved in civil wars. And families take sides, and people split up, and we don't forgive our aunt for doing this, and we won't speak to our father because he left our mother, or we won't speak to our mother because she ran off with a man, or we won't speak to our son, because he wouldn't… because he did a different job than the one we'd expect. Those are civil wars. They’re certainly the same thing in operation, and I think that, in the end, people will look at the same message and say that, centrally, you're offered a choice in life. You can look at life as a metaphor that is full of hatred and distrust and fear, or you can look at life and say, “This is an opportunity to love; this is an opportunity to bring love and to work to bring love as often as I can.” That's a choice. It's actually a choice. You don't just feel it; you decide that that's what you're going to do. But, in making that decision, you become free. You are not free when you hate, I posit. I've hated sometimes, and I can't say that, anytime that I've hated, I've ever been free, because it's hate that's run me. I haven't run the hate. But the weird thing is, when you really love, don't you feel it? Like a breath of freedom, where you suddenly feel, “Oh my God, I've chosen this.” And it's beautiful. That's the choice we've made, and I think everybody who goes into the cinema is going to think that that's the choice that was made. And the actor who plays Robert absolutely felt it on screen. There's something that happens, which I'm not going to tell you, about at the end of the movie, that he did, which I didn't tell him to do, which is such an act of total forgiveness it surprised him. But it came out of a totally human place, which is what we want to do. We hang on to hate because we're frightened, but we want to let it go and open ourselves to love. Lauer: Well, I for one can't wait to see this movie based upon the way that you've described it. I have seen little clips. I've had the privileged of seeing little clips, and it looks fantastic. It looks like everything a great Roland Joffe movie would look like. Joffe: Thank you. Lauer: And we're very, very excited, Roland, that you've made the choice to take on this incredible task. And Olga, what a blessing to have you in the movie. And your other cast members did a fantastic job. In future calls, we'll have a chance to speak with them as well. I want to remind everybody, as we bring this to a close, that you can contact us - you can contact me - directly through my email ([email protected]) and please visit the newly launched website therebedragonsfilm.com. We will be in touch with many of you in the coming months. We'd love to arrange additional personal interviews with the cast and crew, and we thank you for joining us today. There will be an audio version of this entire call and, from Spain, to all of you back in the US, and those of you who may be listening in Europe, we wish you a good night and a good day, and we'll speak with you soon. Joffe: And thank you for attending. Kurylenko: Thank you. Lauer: Over and out.
So, Roland has just joined us. Roland Joffe. Again, all of you who received the information are very familiar with this man's work. He directed one of my favorite films, “The Mission.” As well as many other notable and highly critically-acclaimed movies, like “The Killing Fields,” “City of Joy.” Olga, our beautiful guest here; I wish that this was a live on-camera interview, because it would be even more exciting for all the viewers out there… or the listeners. But we will have a chance to see Olga in the coming months. We'll be doing some fun stuff on the Internet where she'll be talking to you and many other people. Olga was recently in a very successful film, “The Quantum of Solace,” and I'm sure many of you saw her wonderful performance there, and you will be very impressed by her performance in “There Be Dragons.” So, welcome both of you... Roland Joffe: Thank you. Lauer: …to Spain, having just spent months in Argentina shooting the film. And then you spent –what? - a week in Spain for the final touches? Joffe: Yes, yes. Well, actually, we spent two weeks altogether, kind of putting together a week's (worth of) shooting in a wonderful little town called Sepúlveda, in northern Spain, extremely beautiful. Well, we took the entire town over, and took their wonderful cobbled streets and turned them into sort of mud passages and earth, and turned the town back to what it was in 1908. To their delight, funnily enough. Lauer: And so the principle photography for the film is completed, and now you're moving into what phase? Joffe: Well, now we're going to the editing phase, which is very exciting. And we'll really make the movie. And then, after that, comes the dubbing and the music and the colorizing and all those very exciting things to finish a movie. Lauer: And so the projected release for the movie is sometime in 2010? Joffe: Yes. Lauer: Summer or Fall, something along those lines? Joffe: Well, I think probably Fall. But I mean, it's very early to say, so I'd better not give a date, because then I'll regret it. Lauer: Right. Right. Well, Roland, what brought you to this project?
